Tulpa.info - metaphysics

More second-hand lecturing?

7:01 PM

Or re-triggering it?

lol, no, not that at all. The only part that would be a bad thing to get into would be one of the two things I was focused on. The other being work.

7:02 PM

Aside from that, it's fine to talk about, and I would welcome it.

On a side note, though I would say that I'm mostly without suffering these days. It has also been useful for myself to put these thoughts into conscious order - because by default my tulpa's more emotionally driven state seems to manifest from time to time as suffering in the Rogerian sense. Also I wonder how our boi Roger would respond to that. Effectively speaking I've semi-intentionally reintroduced suffering to my system, even if it is somewhat distant emotionally from my own. Hmm.

Semi-intentionally?

Of course. Suffering is motivational. He is much more driven to act than me. We largely act as offsets to each others weaknesses, my lack of motivation is offset by their drive, and my stability helps them calm themselves.

Side note of my own, I hate that Roger always holds his satsangs at the same time of day, which translates to 4 - 6 am my time (during Australian daylight savings time) or 6 - 8 am my time (during Californian daylight savings time) (edited)

I feel I was ahead of the game but have fallen behind in regards to suffering. Lily/Vixie, particularly the merge, seem to be doing very well lately, partly from stuff Lula has been working on. Not sure why it hasn't been as transferrable to me, probably something with my mindset currently making it more difficult to integrate similar views.

He used to offer one-on-one sessions for a while but I guess it got too exhausting for him

7:13 PM

Of course. Suffering is motivational. He is much more driven to act than me.

Hmm sure, but I mean when you created him I'm sure you didn't consider that as suffering, right?

I didn't intentionally give them weaknesses but in practice there is no character trait that doesn't manifest as a weakness. They were made to be passionate and emotionally driven.

in practice there is no character trait that doesn't manifest as a weakness.

Wow harsh :p Even I'm not that mean about hostie

S'true. Confidence is often arrogance. Empathy is often vulnerability

7:15 PM

And so on.

In any case, I would say that being "passionate and emotionally driven" doesn't necessarily mean "suffers more than someone with a calm personality"

7:16 PM

Btw I think it's interesting that you flip between male and neutral pronouns for your tulpa haha

My default is always neutrality. Actually using gendered pronouns seems to be rare when I write anything.

7:18 PM

It's usually the optimal solution too since there's rarely a chance of upsetting people with them. There are a sliver of people who are sensitive to being called they/them, but that's usually on them and if they bring it up I'm happy to switch pronouns.

Yeah you usually seem to use "they", but you did say "he is much more driven to act"

7:18 PM

There are a sliver of people who are sensitive to being called they/them, but that's usually on them

This made me laugh out loud

7:20 PM

How does your tulpa feel about your view that their suffering is stronger than yours?

In what sense? This is an observation both of us have made as we have developed a dynamic.

Oh interesting, so they agree?

Also stronger might be a misnomer. They are more prone to experiencing suffering. The emotional experience is not meaningfully more intense.

Ah fair enough

And yes.

Do they experience the suffering as something uncomfortable or are they at peace with it?

Though we would both point out that there has been a significant suffering period recently which has effected myself as well, via shame. Which lasted a few months and was directly related to them.

Ah huh

7:25 PM

I had something occur last night/this morning that triggered some major shame for us, but Christian server and all that :p

He says the experience of anxiety and fixation itself is pretty uncomfortable but he is at peace with it being a negative expression of something that's ultimately a positive trait. He's also been slowly getting less stressed-out since his return to existence and we've achieved a new normal. Beyond that though he generally relies on me to snap him out of negative modes of thought.

What is the positive trait that sometimes expresses as anxiety and fixation?

Zen

S'true. Confidence is often arrogance. Empathy is often vulnerability

I absolutely agree with this, and this is why Lily had dove in to effective plurarity prior to really knowing about any sort of formalized non-disordered plurality. The empathy issue being a primary sticking point.

Zen

S'true. Confidence is often arrogance. Empathy is often vulnerability

Wait a second, I thought you didn't agree with arrogance being a symptom of suffering ;P

Unfastened Belts

What is the positive trait that sometimes expresses as anxiety and fixation?

If I had to render it down, I'd struggle. Being emotionally rather than rationally driven in the general sense; greater empathy than myself; stuff like that. A comparison would be that if I'm the superego, he is the id.

Sorry for inadvertently drawing Marissa's laser like attention back to that.

Ahahaha

Also it's not suffering. Negative traits aren't suffering, as we've established.

Ah I see

Being an asshole and being perfectly happy are not mutually exclusive.

I agree with that! Just because you're free of suffering doesn't mean you'll be a pleasant person who always acts nicely

7:37 PM

Roger's teacher's teacher Nisargadatta was famous for lashing out angrily at satsang attendees

Our Id is absolutely Vixie.

Super-ego Lily. Ego me. Lula functions probably as a hybrid Id/Super-ego.

(Only to laugh at their jokes 5 minutes later)

Unfastened Belts

Roger's teacher's teacher Nisargadatta was famous for lashing out angrily at satsang attendees

I don't know why this makes me want to meet Nisargadatta.

((Satsang = teacher delivering concepts and answering questions from seekers))

7:38 PM

We've already established you'd love Nisargadatta :p He smoked cigarettes too

7:39 PM

7:39 PM

His facial expression is like "are you a fucking moron?"

7:40 PM

His student and Roger's teacher Ramesh Balsekar (formerly head of the bank of India) apparently cheated on his wife with female seekers all the time

I have a habit of getting along with people that nobody else can get along with.

It's the very personable folks that often grate on my nerves.

Hahaha Roger is certainly the most milquetoast of the three

That explains a lot.

XD

I feel bad for giving Cassidy such an unsatisfying answer in regard to souls...

Some of Ramesh's satsangs are on Youtube too, but while I love his writings, I can't watch his satsangs because his tone of voice annoys me to no end lol. He sounds arrogant af to me

Doesn't that imply that if he was as he says: happy, that arrogance is not the root of such =D

1

Absolutely! I'm not saying he was arrogant, just that he sounds that way to me

7:42 PM

Oh I misread what you said haha

7:43 PM

Got me on that one I suppose ;P

7:43 PM

Anyway here's one of his satsangs for good measure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEX_wJfaKic

Advaita House

Ramesh Balsekar - Thy Will Be Done

7:43 PM

Ramesh is the one who "invented" the framework btw (edited)

I mean... Dude slept around behind his partners back in that situation? That's usually a sign of... interesting ideas of their own authority. Haven't you ever heard the quote "Everything is about sex. Apart from sex. Sex is about power."

I mean... Dude slept around behind his partners back in that situation? That's usually a sign of... interesting ideas of their own authority.

At least such are the rumours. No idea if they're true and/or whether his wife was okay with it

7:47 PM

When Roger is asked about stuff like that, he emphasizes that freedom from suffering will not make you a perfect human being with socially acceptable behaviour

7:47 PM

All it means is that you will no longer experience guilt, blame, pride, worry or expectation

7:48 PM

Anyway I do love that Ramesh's satsangs are part comedic stand-up lol

7:48 PM

More like sit-down comedy rather than stand-up comedy in this case I suppose...

7:48 PM

Haven't you ever heard the quote "Everything is about sex. Apart from sex. Sex is about power."

I love this by the way lol

Hmm, when coupled with it not at least improving your moral behavior, it almost sounds like a means of escaping accountability.

I wish I could find a cure to my low/moderate-grade constant state of dissociation I wonder if it's LSD but I'm too young for that... if it becomes medically available I'd do it Also wonder about the float pods, I'd do that too, I think if you lock someone in one of those for like 4 hours, they'd come out a new person

Cassidy did you see my ping above?

"You'll still do wrong, but won't get experience shame or guilt for it."

It's sort of just part of my personality/identity at this point, I see people talk about like, mindfulness as the inverse of dissociation, like if you're really attuned to feeling the sensation of ice or a strong smell or food it'll make you stop dissociating, which is maybe true for most Even when I'm in deep deep, hour-long vipassana, even if my awareness of it stops for a while, I'm still moderately dissociated, I dissociate as much as I breathe

7:53 PM

This is James now but yeah

Float pods are effectively extreme sensory deprivation, are they not?

He'll probably be around in a few hours to talk about it

7:53 PM

Yeah

I'd certainly give them a shot.

Scarlet

Hmm, when coupled with it not at least improving your moral behavior, it almost sounds like a means of escaping accountability.

That's almost right. You can't escape social accountability, but your internal guilt and shame can dissolve.

I love sensory deprivation, people always hype up sensory stimulation as the fix for dissociation but I find deprivation works much better for my situation I like to sit in the bath in the dark for a good hour or two, it's like the womb, man

But yes, "improving my moral behaviour" is usually a symptom of suffering and not a by-result of the end of unhappiness

Why do you think it is that you find deprivation so helpful? I've heard of awareness of stimuli always mentioned in regards to grounding also.

Unfastened Belts

But yes, "improving my moral behaviour" is usually a symptom of suffering and not a by-result of the end of unhappiness

Hence my comment previously, lol. Much of the social accountability comes from inflicting shame and guilt. If you're incapable of feeling it...

It sounds so terribly pessimistic but I consider my dissociation almost like a byproduct of sensory processing/existence Just seeing and hearing makes me dissociate, and so at the end of the day I lust for laying in bed in the dark, not for sleeping, but just to not have to look or see anything

I can scarcely imagine dissociation to that level. But that may be endemic to my ADHD - my senses fixate strongly in most cases. Dissociation takes deep meditation for me to achieve in any meaningful sense. (edited)

Most sensations I find pretty neutral to negative in nature, nothing tastes good, nothing sounds good, nothing feels good, I'd rather not taste, hear, or feel I like thinking, thinking is nice

7:59 PM

As a kid I struggled to eat because everything tastes horrible, I don't like to be touched, and I would rip off all my clothes as soon as I got home and wore only one type of shirt and pants until the age of 14

Scarlet

Hence my comment previously, lol. Much of the social accountability comes from inflicting shame and guilt. If you're incapable of feeling it...

I disagree with this. I think punishing crimes still makes sense in a society free from psychological guilt and shame. You're still going to try to avoid pain (punishment) and most people will still have an aversion to intentionally inflicting pain on others.

8:00 PM

Conversely, it's not like punishment (or even internal guilt/shame!) are currently doing a perfect job of stopping people from doing what they were going to do anyway, lol (edited)

yeah it's wild Zen, I've never met anyone like myself in that way

8:02 PM

They're out there I'm sure

Cassidy, may I ask, do you generally experience dissociation as a system/brain-wide phenomena?

This is James, sorry All of us do, but to different extents, Cassidy is the best off really, and Gavin... I dunno, I'd argue he's much more detached in daily living, but he's like a fish in water with it, he can be extremely dissociated and still, for example, hold a conversation, while I might be pretty much mute or not answering people properly Cassidy would probably start crying ngl which is part of why he doesn't use the body so much in public as us (edited)

If you're co-fronting, do you experience different levels of dissociation individually, simultaneously? I'm not sure if this is actually what I'm trying to get at or not but struggling to think how else to ask the question.

Hmm... well, what do you mean by co-fronting? We don't really do "two people using the body at once" but we're all generally awake at the same time for most of the day

8:10 PM

Generally the people on the inside (not using the body) will be less dissociated, and they may or may not become more dissociated if they were to switch But it's hard to tell... the inside world has much less going on, it's a quieter and cozy and safe place, so it could also just be that, by the merit of not using the body, they're a lot more functional while being the same level of dissociated

We don't really do "two people using the body at once"

Have you considered that you may be whispers median?

Huh? Me, Jamie, within myself might be, but not me vs. my brothers